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RE: Ammonia

Christine — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 04:53:05 GMT

Thank you Princess

RE: Ammonia

princessotfu — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:40:52 GMT

Yes, it's fine to use the bacterial starter.

RE: Ammonia

Christine — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:35:24 GMT

Princess

So it's ok to add a starter at this point of the process?

Here are my readings.

Ammonia 4.0 (I have noticed that it is coming down. It was off the charts and the highest reading on the chart is 5.0)

nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
total hardness 300
total chloriine 0
total alkalinity 80
ph 6.8

RE: Ammonia

princessotfu — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:29:54 GMT

yes, it will work itself out if you are careful about testing and changing the water when necessary. Cycling a tank with fish is hard on them, as it stresses them out and opens them up to disease. But, it can certainly be gotten through without them any the worse for the ordeal, so don't panic or anything. Just test your water once a day and do a water change any time the levels go too high. I don't know the exact directions for the ammolock, so you'll have to check that out or wait for more specific advice, but it will be a useful tool. And, it's not too late to add the bacterial starters if you decide you want to go that route.

And remember, when in doubt, ask. There are no stupid questions!:)

RE: Ammonia

Christine — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:22:30 GMT

Princess thank you so much. That makes sense to me. I'll retest and show you the numbers in a few minutes. So you suggest doing a 50% water change today?

So basically it sounds like it is still cycling. I should have used the starters but did not know about it. So for now I just need to keep doing my water changes and use ammolock and it will work itself out?

RE: Ammonia

Christine — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:18:32 GMT

Your forgiven. I am new at this and I informed these morons of that and everything else. It started when nimrod told me it's ok to add 13 fish at once.

When they said cycle, they said let it run without fish. I did not know about the biological fish starters. Perhaps they should have told me.

Maybe my first mistake was buying from them and not a real aquarium.

Responding to David Lass

RE: Ammonia

princessotfu — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:27:26 GMT

I'm still personally wary of advocating the bacterial starters, but if David says they work, I have no problem backing up that advice. :)

RE: Ammonia

princessotfu — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:24:36 GMT

you misunderstand the concept of cycling. We have a few articles on it somewhere, but I'll give you the short version.

Your fish produce ammonia as waste, and they produce it constantly. When you cycle your tank, you are growing populations of bacteria that will first convert the ammonia to nitrite, which is still dangerous, and then you are growing bacteria that convert the nitrite to nitrates, which are much, much less dangerous to fish.
Since this is true, simply running your aquarium for 3 weeks doesn't do anything to cycle it, unless you were adding an ammonia source during that time. Also, if you are still showing ammonia, you are not cycled, no matter how long the tank has been set up. A properly cycled tank has 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite and some level of nitrate that will fluctuate during the week.
You are currently in the middle of cycling your tank. You will continue to show ammonia until the bacteria begin to colonize and process it, at which time the ammonia levels will taper off and disappear. Then you will show nitrites and go through the same process.

I would post the exact numbers of the readings for your tank, and do an immediate 50% water change. As I said, when you are cycling with fish, you never really want the ammonia to go above .5ppm. There is a little more room for error, since you are using an ammonia binder (the ammolock), but not too much.

EDIT* - whoops, I think I posted mostly the same thing as David. Oh well, you can't really ever hear too much about the nitrogen cycle, it's that important.:)

RE: Ammonia

David Lass — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:20:33 GMT

This is one of the major problems in the hobby with new hobbyists and their first tank. Pardon me if I am being a little didactic, but the principles are really simple -- if folks, especially salespersons at stores, would just understand them.

CYCLING your tank does not simply mean letting it run without any fish in it. Let me say that again. CYCLING your tank does not simply mean letting it run without any fish in it.

Cycling a tank has to do with getting the Nitrogen Cycle established, which is where bacteria turn ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite are very harmful to fish. Nitrates are not nearly as bad. These "beneficial bacteria" of the Nitrogen Cycle require two things to effectively do their thing -- food and a place to live. Most filters, as well as all the surfaces of an aquarium, provide the places for the bacteria to live. The food is in the form of ammonia (which is fish wastes and decaying things in the tank) and nitrite. A tank just sitting there with nothing in it is not building the bacteria of the Nitrogen Cycle.

Now -- here comes the punch line. Many folks on FishChannel.com like "fishless" cycling of a tank, which involves feeding the bacteria with either plain ammonia, or decaying fish food or cocktail shrimps, until the NC is established. This works fine -- but it takes anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks, during which time you do not have anything in your tank except ammonia and/or rotting shrimps. Most folks -- especially new hobbyists -- simply don't want to look at an empty tank for 6 weeks. Therefore they go to their local fish store. The good lfs's will explain the Nitrogen Cycle, and help you slowly add fish to your tank. The not so good lfs's will load a bunch of fish on you and wish you well. THE REALLY GOOD LOCAL FISH STORES WILL SELL YOU ANY ONE OF THE BACTERIA "STARTERS" NOW AVAILABLE. I'm been told that writing something in caps on a post is the equivalent of yelling -- that's what I intended to do above. There are a number of products available now that will establish the Nitrogen Cycle in a tank, with a number of fish in the tank, without harming the fish at all. I've been testing every one of these products I can find, and so far I've tested 7 or 8 , and I have only found one that didn't work, and that was a very minor brand. All of the "tank starters" from the major manufacturers work. My definition of "working" is that I used them, and the next day put the entire tank of fish into the tank, and in a few days I measured zero ammonia, zero nitrite and some nitrates -- this means that the bacteria of the Nitrogen Cycle were established, and happily converting ammonia to nitrite and then nitrite into nitrates.

PLEASE -- whenever you are starting a new tank, use one of the biological starters -- both you and your fish will be much happier. There really is no excuse for New Tank Syndrome any more.

Also, whenever you add more fish to the tank, first do a 25% water change, and add some of the biological starter along with the new fish.

Please let me know what you guys think -- and I apologize for yelling.

RE: Ammonia

Christine — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:15:06 GMT

[quote]princessotfu (8/31/2008)

You will need to be dosing the ammo-lock everyday for it to do its work.

Do you have tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? If so, your schedule should be to change 25% of the water any time the ammonia OR the nitrite is over .5ppm. This could mean every day or twice daily until you are cycled.

I know you said you cycled the tank for three weeks before adding fish, how did you go about this?

When your tank IS finally cycled, then you want to follow the 25% weekly water change advice.[/quote]

Yes I also test for ph, nitrate, nitrite, buffering, etc. Those all check out normal. I did not know I could use ammolock every day.

As far as cycling I just let it run without any fish. I added the proper conditioners and all that when I set up the tank. I just let it run.

As of now, I have had my tank for over 3 months. So it is definitely cycled by now. So now with this ammonia problem that has been a constant problem, how much water change should I do and how often? Also use Ammo lock everyday? Should I use the ammolock and use the amount to treat the whole tank or what I have replaced?

RE: Ammonia

princessotfu — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:07:51 GMT

Ammonia

Christine — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:01:14 GMT

I have a 20 gallon tank. I am fairly new at keeping an aquarium. I have learned so much over the months.

When I first got my tank, I let it cycle for 3 weeks then went to petco. This is the first time I had any other fish besides bettas. The petco guy sold me 13 fish to put in my tank from the getgo. I had neon tetra's and guppies. Needless to say, they all died. I found out later that I added too many fish and it caused the ammonia to spike.

Lesson learned. The petco guy should have known that. I told him every detail about the aquarium. I know when adding fish, do three or four at a time but wait at least a week in between.

So now I have 6 mollies, 3 platies, and 4 swordtails. They are all doing excellent. The problem is, I have the highest level of ammonia. I was doing 25% water changes weekly but a different aquarium lady told me to do reduce feeding and do 10% water change weekly. I was feeding twice a day, so now I am feeding once a day. When I change the water I add ammolock which is an ammonia detoxifier. It does get rid of it but it changes it to a less toxic state.

So my tank conditions are so much better now than when I started but I don't know how to get rid of the ammonia.