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RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:33:33 GMT

Ok, here's new info on the pond.

I lost the biggest cloud minnow two days ago- I thought she was a heavy female but I might have been wrong. Anyways, the other 5 are still swimming around as usual acting like they own the place. They will now eat while my hands are in the pond so they've gotten pretty used to me being around.

The ryukin is doing great too. I havn't noticed any missing pieces of plants from the lilies or surprisingly even the submerged plants which is perfectly fine with me. The tadpoles have decined in numbers a bit (only the small ones are disappearing) which is fine too. (There were so many treefrog tadpoles! Every three days for a month you could expect to see another batch of eggs floating on the pond. I have young tree frogs all over the place! :D)

My family went to the river earlier today and I brought back some baby minnows of some kind. I still have to identify them- the babies didn't have much color, but the juveniles were striped with different browns. I'll keep ya posted.

I also have two female bettas and one male betta in the pond at this time... My oldest female is so fat (I can't tell wether it's from her own eggs or from the tadpoles she's been eating). Do you think they will spawn before the fall?

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:46:57 GMT

I bought 6 cloud minnows today and they are doing great in the pond. They've eaten already and are checking everything out. I'll take out most of them and overwinter them indoors. If the ones left outside survive the winter- fantastic! If not, then I'll either keep them as summer pond fish or I might get a pond heater...

I bought a small ryukin also. He's white with red markings on all his fins, a hood of red covering the top of his head and one eye, and also his top lip. Pretty comical to see him, and very lively. If he eats my lilies than he goes to my friend. If not, then he can stay as long as he wants!

The store didn't have any paradise gouramis so I'll have to check around for them. I'll keep ya posted!

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:49:12 GMT

Yeah- it's always a good idea to check! (never a good idea to go against the law of the land!)

I'm setting aside the option of fantail goldfish for the moment. I'm researching the paradise gourami and white cloud minnows. I've read alot of stories about these two fish how they can survive low temperatures. Not sure how low South East China's temperatures are in the winter, but there have been paradise gouramis that survived being left outside in bags during the winter in HongKong. So they might be a good addition!

I may have to add a heater... but like I said, still researching!

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

princessotfu — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:34:01 GMT

That's sweet. Yeah, it's not a problem for every state, I've just started asking people to check the lists for their state, to be safe, since I've found out just how many pond and aquarium plants are actually invasives in various states. But if it's not on the list for you, then cool beans. :)

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 05:45:26 GMT

Thankyou for the website link!

Yes, the thought about the lilies has been at the back of my mind. I have a place I can temporarily hold the goldfish if they do start eating my lily pads. I know a guy who will be happy to take them if I decide to give them away.

I've investigated my state's invasive plant list (Virginia) and water hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes) isn't on the list. I checked both latin and common names. I knew about the invasiveness of the plant when I bought three, and plan on snipping off the spent flowers before they set to seed. This is the first year I've had them- I bought them last month. I was actually expecting more growth on them, but they seem intent on getting bigger not sending out more daughter plants at the moment. The roots are already six inches long.

I've noticed that their newer leaves aren't as dark as previous growth. I still have a big of green water in the pond but it is slowly dieing back- I added barley straw extract to the water according to label instructions. I'm wondering if the extract is inhibiting the uptake of nutrients to the hyacinth, or if the nutrient levels are decreasing because of all the marginal plants. Probably the marginal plants. The other plants are doing fantastic! Especially the native arrow heads! When I found the arrow heads the adult plants' leaves were smaller than my hand. Now the babies that I took have leaves that are 7 inches long! :D and they have burgundy splotches on them.

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

princessotfu — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:34:11 GMT

How to tell a female goldie from a male? Check the vent. Simply put, females are "outties" and males are "innies". For a more involved explanation, check this article out.
http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html

I'm also very sorry to tell you that anything a wakin goldfish will eat, is probably in danger from any goldfish, even the fancy varieties. They all graze on plants, regardless of variety. Although, I can't really think of much to suggest in their place. I just wanted to let you know that, so you don't buy some fantails and then watch in horror while they decimate your lilies. :w00t:

And finally, please, please, please, be careful with the water hyacinth. I don't know what state you're in, but in many parts of the country, especially the southern states, it's a nasty invasive species. Keeping it in an outdoor pond can be a recipe for disaster to local waterways. Please do check the DNR invasive species list for your state and see if it's there.

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:39:57 GMT

Oh- I thought maybe it had to do with wether they had a double or single anal fin. I've seen a fantail at a store with a single anal fin- all the other fantails had double. I guess I'll have to get a few and hope that they are different.

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

FishChannel Moderator — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:00:25 GMT

DazzleDiscus (7/13/2008)

Anyone know how to tell the gender of a goldfish?

The only ways I've heard of is to see which chases which, i.e. the male chases the female. Also, around breeding time male goldfish develop white bumps (breeding tubercles) on the gill covers and the rays of their pectoral fins.

F.M.

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:03:39 GMT

I've pushed the Wakin (pronounced WAH-KEEN), Tamasaba, and Sabao goldfish out of the picture because the Wakin (Beautiful for large, unplanted ponds!!!) love to eat water lilies and the largest measured Wakin was almost 18inches long. The other fish get pretty big and also love to eat their weight in plants...

I'll pick up a nice fantail goldfish next time I go to the LFS. They have a very wide selection of pond goldfish so I'm sure I'll find a nice red and white fantail. I'd like to have them breed so I'll get three... Anyone know how to tell the gender of a goldfish?

I'll probably be adding white cloud mountain minnows to the pond and see if they will survive the winter. They're pretty cheep here ($1) and I've read that they've been known to survive the 5*C mark - which is about 40degreesF. I may have to add a heater if I want to keep them over the winter. Do you think I should look into buying a heater? Seems like a waste... but I don't really want to go fishing out dead fish every winter because I couldn't find the few last hiding ones...

I think I'll skip the small mouth bass cause I'm sure If I put guppies or the white clouds or other small fish they won't last long if the big guy gets hungry. Of which fish always are ;)

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:41:52 GMT

Rats! I found that the wakins' favorite plants to eat are water lilies... and that the fish can get over a foot long... almost two feet. Alwell. Back to the drawing board. ;)

So I'll probably get a fantail or something... and I'll look more into the small mouth bass and white clouds. Thanks for your help- Anymore comments please do post.

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:01:14 GMT

Haha! Yeah I think I'll skip the sturgeon!
Not sure on the small mouth bass- I know we have large mouth bass all over the place in Va. I'm wondering just how small his mouth will be... :P

I might try to put a few white clouds in the pond and leave them for the winter to see if they will survive... I'll check some pond sites too to see if they know. I'd rather have white clouds instead of Gambusia.

As for goldfish, now I'm leaning towards the wakin (pronounced WAH-KEEN) It means "Japanese goldfish". They are deepbodied and have a cool tail- sortof like a fantail goldfish. Their body reminds me of a young koi- with a double/fantail.

Here's a site that I found that has some nice pictures of them: http://wakin.us/

I'd like to get one (or a male and female and breed them). The babies would be given away to the petstores, friends, etc. So far the petstores I've looked at don't sell them. What do you think? Is a 500gal pond big enough? The bottom of the pond will be covered with the submerged plant by the end of summer- So there will be plenty of cover and munchies...

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

math-only aquarium — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:26:01 GMT

A VA winter is pretty tough to accomodate.

Hey, if you want to take the time to get the permit, I did a pond for a guy who kept a couple of sturgeon. However, 500 gallons would be a bit too small (by about 1,500 gallons). I've also known people who had decent success with smallmouth bass (even in planted ponds, provided they have enough animal prey).

RE: suggestions for pond fish?

lilcherna — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:41:36 GMT

whoops, i just realized that this was two days old but since no one else helped....

the fancy goldfish (fantails, orandas, etc.) dont get big, compared to a comet goldfish that is, they get about 8in. maybe a bit bigger in a good sized pond like that. and as long as you have good filteration they wont make a terrible mess of anything. i have comet goldfish with some iris, a pond lily, and some hornwort and they havent eaten any of it. but im not sure about the fancy goldfish. but even still they arent much of pond fish. they cant swim too fast because of theyre body shape and tails and when i had them in my pond many years back they would always be eaten by birds or racoons because they were so slow. but now i have a cinder block in the pond and the goldfish love to hide in it and i doubt that a racoon would be able to pick that up. shubunkins would be a good goldfish for a smaller pond (although i used comets for my smallish pond >.<)

all the tropical fish that you mentioned wouldnt be able to survive the winter. just sayin. but they could be kept from spring to the end of summer but then you'd have an empty pond. you could keep a common pleco in there too.

as for the wild fish you could put them in there too. oh, and if you have a petco around you the one near me has rosy red minnows and those are pretty and cheap, and you could put a bunch in there and they might breed, blablablah. you could also put white cloud mountain minnows and have the same effect. and the wcmm are coldwater fish so they might be able to survive the winter.

suggestions for pond fish?

DazzleDiscus — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:54:56 GMT

ok. I have a 500gal pond stocked with a lotus, a few water lilies, native marginal plants, a whole bunch of some type of fine-leaved submerged aquatic plant I picked up from local ponds two years ago, pickeral rush, and water hyacinth.

I want fish that can survive the winter (I live in Virginia- boarderline between zone 6 and 7. I keep an area free of ice during winter so that gas exange can freely take place. I've kept bluegill, perch, and sunfish in there before, but gave them away when they kept attacking my lilies. They didn't eat them- just chewed them up and spit the pieces out... to float around... and annoy me.

Koi will get too big (in my opinion) for this pond and I'm wary about goldfish in general because I don't want them to completely destroy my submerged plants. I don't mind if they nibble on them- but I don't want to have to add more underwater plants later on.

I was thinking about US native shiners (namely the "whitefinned" yellowfin shiner Notropis lutipinnis) Also maybe I can catch one of those hundreds of darters that live not too far from me... Either one be hard to get so I'll be looking at the normal bland selection... *shudder*

So any suggestions? I was looking at the fantails cause they only get (supposably) 6inches long. or maybe the Red and White Ryukin ("8inches"). I don't know much about goldfish- as they are nasty filthy critters, get extremely long, and devour a beautifully planted tank in a matter of seconds. (I'll let my opinion show if you don't mind too much... )

Does anyone know if any tetras or gouramis or killifish or .. or ... ANYTHING else can survive VA winters? Seriously folks- I'm getting tired of the usual fair for fishtanks and ponds... (It's about 11pm and I should be in bed so I'm sure I'm rambling.) I mean even a bland-looking nocturnal pleco would work fine!!!

I'm going to put a pair of gouramis or bettas or some aquarium fish in the pond next spring for them to breed so that it'll be different. I have 4 female guppies and a female betta in there now... just cause I don't have anything else. I won't add any males cause I don't have indoor tanks ready for them or their young. That will come next year. SIGH. And to think that the aquarists in Europe dream of keeping United States native fish and pay good money for them while we have them swimming literally in our backyard. And even we don't get a change to buy them because everyone wants the fish from other countries. Go figure.

Good night folks- and I hope I havn't scared you off from my rambling, I would really appriciate it if you replied, even if you don't know what to answer with.

-~~Dazzle~~ ...
-Flustered Dazzle.