I want fish that can survive the winter (I live in Virginia- boarderline between zone 6 and 7. I keep an area free of ice during winter so that gas exange can freely take place. I've kept bluegill, perch, and sunfish in there before, but gave them away when they kept attacking my lilies. They didn't eat them- just chewed them up and spit the pieces out... to float around... and annoy me.

Koi will get too big (in my opinion) for this pond and I'm wary about goldfish in general because I don't want them to completely destroy my submerged plants. I don't mind if they nibble on them- but I don't want to have to add more underwater plants later on.

I was thinking about US native shiners (namely the "whitefinned" yellowfin shiner  Notropis lutipinnis) Also maybe I can catch one of those hundreds of darters that live not too far from me... Either one be hard to get so I'll be looking at the normal bland selection... *shudder* 

So any suggestions? I was looking at the fantails cause they only get (supposably) 6inches long. or maybe the Red and White Ryukin ("8inches"). I don't know much about goldfish- as they are nasty filthy critters, get extremely long, and devour a beautifully planted tank in a matter of seconds. (I'll let my opinion show if you don't mind too much... )  

Does anyone know if any tetras or gouramis or killifish or .. or ... ANYTHING else can survive VA winters? Seriously folks- I'm getting tired of the usual fair for fishtanks and ponds... (It's about 11pm and I should be in bed so I'm sure I'm rambling.) I mean even a bland-looking nocturnal pleco would work fine!!!

I'm going to put a pair of gouramis or bettas or some aquarium fish in the pond next spring for them to breed so that it'll be different. I have 4 female guppies and a female betta in there now... just cause I don't have anything else. I won't add any males cause I don't have indoor tanks ready for them or their young. That will come next year. SIGH. And to think that the aquarists in Europe dream of keeping United States native fish and pay good money for them while we have them swimming literally in our backyard. And even we don't get a change to buy them because everyone wants the fish from other countries. Go figure.

Good night folks- and I hope I havn't scared you off from my rambling, I would really appriciate it if you replied, even if you don't know what to answer with. 

-Dazzle ...
-Flustered Dazzle. 

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2nd Peter 3:5-6)

the fancy goldfish (fantails, orandas, etc.) dont get big, compared to a comet goldfish that is, they get about 8in. maybe a bit bigger in a good sized pond like that. and as long as you have good filteration they wont make a terrible mess of anything. i have comet goldfish with some iris, a pond lily, and some hornwort and they havent eaten any of it. but im not sure about the fancy goldfish. but even still they arent much of pond fish. they cant swim too fast because of theyre body shape and tails and when i had them in my pond many years back they would always be eaten by birds or racoons because they were so slow. but now i have a cinder block in the pond and the goldfish love to hide in it and i doubt that a racoon would be able to pick that up. shubunkins would be a good goldfish for a smaller pond (although i used comets for my smallish pond >.<)

all the tropical fish that you mentioned wouldnt be able to survive the winter. just sayin. but they could be kept from spring to the end of summer but then you'd have an empty pond. you could keep a common pleco in there too.

as for the wild fish you could put them in there too. oh, and if you have a petco around you the one near me has rosy red minnows and those are pretty and cheap, and you could put a bunch in there and they might breed, blablablah. you could also put white cloud mountain minnows and have the same effect. and the wcmm are coldwater fish so they might be able to survive the winter.

10 gal: 4 black kuhli loaches, 1 female sailfin molly
29 gal: 1 Dalmation molly (male), 1 bumblebee catfish, 1 yoyo loach.
5 gal planted: 2 pygmy cories, 2 amano shrimp, 2 nerite snails, 1 mosquitofish, 3 fancy guppies.
2.5 gal: male betta Nathaniel (avatar) .
20 gal: 9 unknown fish from canal, 3 blue-fin killifish, 1 holbrook's mosquitofish,
Pond: 3 comet goldfish, Panda, Ricco, Elizabeth.
Container Pond (20g): 1 oranda, Reginald

"I dont have too many fish tanks, you dont have enough!"
"Hello poor goldfish, doomed to a life in a bowl... er, lack of life"

Hey, if you want to take the time to get the permit, I did a pond for a guy who kept a couple of sturgeon. However, 500 gallons would be a bit too small (by about 1,500 gallons). I've also known people who had decent success with smallmouth bass (even in planted ponds, provided they have enough animal prey).

"Tears aren't a sign of weakness, they're a sign of poor plumbing."

--Dead Men's Lies

I might try to put a few white clouds in the pond and leave them for the winter to see if they will survive... I'll check some pond sites too to see if they know. I'd rather have white clouds instead of Gambusia.

As for goldfish, now I'm leaning towards the wakin (pronounced WAH-KEEN) It means "Japanese goldfish". They are deepbodied and have a cool tail- sortof like a fantail goldfish. Their body reminds me of a young koi- with a double/fantail.

Here's a site that I found that has some nice pictures of them: http://wakin.us/

I'd like to get one (or a male and female and breed them). The babies would be given away to the petstores, friends, etc. So far the petstores I've looked at don't sell them. What do you think? Is a 500gal pond big enough? The bottom of the pond will be covered with the submerged plant by the end of summer- So there will be plenty of cover and munchies...

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"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2nd Peter 3:5-6)

So I'll probably get a fantail or something... and I'll look more into the small mouth bass and white clouds. Thanks for your help- Anymore comments please do post.

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"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2nd Peter 3:5-6)

I'll pick up a nice fantail goldfish next time I go to the LFS. They have a very wide selection of pond goldfish so I'm sure I'll find a nice red and white fantail. I'd like to have them breed so I'll get three... Anyone know how to tell the gender of a goldfish?

I'll probably be adding white cloud mountain minnows to the pond and see if they will survive the winter. They're pretty cheep here ($1) and I've read that they've been known to survive the 5*C mark - which is about 40degreesF. I may have to add a heater if I want to keep them over the winter. Do you think I should look into buying a heater? Seems like a waste... but I don't really want to go fishing out dead fish every winter because I couldn't find the few last hiding ones...

I think I'll skip the small mouth bass cause I'm sure If I put guppies or the white clouds or other small fish they won't last long if the big guy gets hungry. Of which fish always are ;)

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"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2nd Peter 3:5-6)